25. Your Immune System Can Be Controlled - Don Hayes

In this episode you are going to learn about how Don was able to overcome his immune disorder through ice baths and a deep breathing technique. Sound pretty unbelievable? Hear it for yourself and find out how you can start implementing this technique in your day to day life.

Yeah, the pain was unbelievable. I thought I knew pain for 50 years of action sports, but, oh, no. From the first symptom, it was probably three or four months. I had to start, like using a wheelchair. They did every testing to think of in a whole shitload of Flyers just because they had the money for it. Anyway, after all of that, the docs are like, we figured it out. Oh, yeah, we can't do anything for that. Here's a referral to pain management. See, in a year, I don't know how familiar you are with Buddhism, but they have this thing called The Five Daily Reflections, but basically it says, I'm not beyond death, I'm going to die. I'm not beyond sickness, I'm going to get sick. I'm not beyond getting old. I'm going to get old. Everything I own and love is going to be taken away. And the only thing left is your Karma or your actions. Hey, what's going on, everybody? It's Aaron, and it's another episode of the Simply Overcoming Podcast. First off, before we get started, I want to address something. And that is, there was not an episode two weeks ago, and you may be wondering why that is. Well, my wife and I are actually just getting over this weird Kovid bug. And so that's my excuse for missing a week. And so as we move into this apologies for the foggy brain, it's still something that I'm dealing with. But overall, we really have not had it that bad. And we're really thankful for that. I am particularly excited about today's guest, I'm speaking with a man who went from being in a wheelchair for around five years, from a rare immune disease to within a month walking with little to no pain at all. When Don was diagnosed with this immune disease, doctors sent him home with a pain management plan. And that was about it. After years of struggling with this life altering disease, Don was introduced to something that has changed his life, referred to by many as the Wim HOF method. Now you may be coming into this episode with a bit of healthy skepticism as dawn did when he first heard about this method. But after you hear this episode, my hope is that you will take the time to research this out even more, because what you are about to hear is pretty unbelievable. Don, thank you for being willing to be on the podcast today. Glad to be here if anybody else can find a benefit. Like I said when my son told me about it a couple of years ago, like, two and a half years ago, I was like, yeah, if it involves cold showers, I'll just die sooner. But after watching some YouTube videos and read that book, What Doesn't Kill US by Scott Carney. But I lost evolutionary greatness. I was like, well, the docs have never done anything for me, but give me more meds to cover up the other meds. So I started doing some research, but I'll give it a shot. So I went hard at it for two and a half years now, but around my body felt better right away, but didn't work any better. And then around the 30th day, I woke up one morning and went to the bathroom. And normally I could still walk, but just really badly if I could take a few steps in a row is a good thing. Like, go into the dairy Department in the store is the same kind of trepidation I used to have for, like, running an iron man for people out there who have never had to struggle with an immune disease like this, you really can't fully understand what it's like and how it affects your body. And my mom actually struggled with she actually had a really bad she dealt with Lyme's disease for a few years to the point where she could hardly walk. And she was down for many years. And a lot of doctors told her that it was in her head. It was long enough ago that there wasn't much Lyme disease here in the Northwest. And so when she went to multiple doctors, they just started telling her that maybe this is in your head, which can be a really terrible thing to hear from a doctor. And so it's something that it's not an easy road to have to go down, even to just figure out what's going on with your body. My guess is that did you have to visit multiple doctors? Was this something that took quite a long time to sort of figure out what exactly is going on with my body? Oh, yeah. It took about a year because I had TRICARE prime, the best health insurance in America, which is the insurance and active duty military people have an Air Force doctor at the Air Force Base in Great Falls as my primary care physician. So originally my symptoms were I just had a little spot on my left foot about the size of a quarter, that if you brush your finger across it, it would hurt. But if you rubbed it or pressed it, it wouldn't hurt. And at that time, I was 58. And I'm thinking, that shit happens. Weird. Whatever. And then about two weeks after that, the bottom of both of my feet went numb, like overnight, I was like, Well, that's not good. So I went and saw my primary care doctor. And of course, first thing they do is like, let's see diabetes, no alcoholism, no. Okay, here's a referral to neurology. So I went to Neurology at benefits. And because basically the docs had an unlimited bucket of money to work with. They did every test they could think of and a whole shitload of Flyers just because they had the money for it. I did three MRIs, 224 hours, urine collections. I don't know how much blood work. And anyway, after all, of that. The doctor, like, we figured it out. Oh, yeah, we can't do anything for that. Here's a referral to pain management. See in a year. Bye bye. Now, thank God for the Internet, because when I got home because basically, I had, like, nothing from the docks. Besides, this is what you got. So I started doing research on the Internet and read neurology textbooks and join in support groups. And eventually, because another thing with this is the pain, because I've done action sports for, like, 50 years. I've like, hang lighted skydive, mountain climb, trail run and all the fun things you can do in life. I had a joke for a while. I told my buddy I used to get my thrills from riding fast motorcycles and jumping out of airplanes. Now I get it from trying not to fall over in the shower. So, yeah, the pain was unbelievable. I thought I knew pain for 50 years of action sports, but, oh, no, I saw pain. He's like, describe the pain. I'm like, Well, imagine if you're a barefoot in the snow while tiny, angry elves flex the skin off your legs while you're hanging onto an electric fence with both hands and getting randomly stung by bees. Yeah, that's what I said. And then because of the opiate crisis, trying to get pain management was like moving heaven and Earth, I finally managed to get them to give me, like, 20 milligrams oxycodone a day, which would give me, like, six to 8 hours of not being an agony. You have to pick which six to 8 hours you wanted. And this came on so quickly, like, within a month. Oh, yeah. It was like crazy. The Doc thought originally I had my Thinus gravis because it was so fast. Personally, I think, because I did ten deployments in the military, which is ten deployments worth of inoculations and then exposed all kinds of neurotoxic, rocket smoke, rocket fuel cordite, all the things. So, yeah, it was like, within from the first symptom, it was probably three or four months. I had to start, like, using a wheelchair because I was walking with a cane in, like, our little town that has one stop where we're living. Before I had one stop light, the light turned green and it was red. Before I could cross the two lanes street with my chain, I was like, Man, I think it's time to use a wheelchair, man, having doctors, especially you having to deal with a doctor telling you, there's nothing we can really do about this. That's very disconcerting. You're like, Well, I've got this. I'll go and they'll make it better. Yeah. I'm so grateful that I'm retired from the military because if I'd have been, like, a car mechanic or something, I'd be like, living under a bridge because I just stopped working, like, three or four months after the first symptom because I couldn't literally couldn't run because I was working in a prison. One of the things I got to run to, like, seven, 8 miles a day and go up, like, 30, 40 flights of stairs in a day. And by my last day, it was like walking on lava and like, dragging myself up the stairs. I'm like, yeah, I just can't do shit anymore. It's like a $60,000 pay cut there. So it puts a crimp in your finances. And we live in a society now, too, where people sort of expect to go to the doctor, you go to the doctor, you get the answer, they give you the fix, and then you're on your way. Right. And man, it can't be easy to find out that there's not really much of an answer. I'm really excited to talk about what you have done in your life to actually get your life back to where you are now. But I kind of want to go back and hear a little bit about your military years. You were in the military for 20 years. By the way. Thank you for your service. Don, can you talk to us about your past experiences? When we first got on the Zoom call, you told me what you've been to 26 different countries. Is that what you said? 69 countries. Oh, I'm sorry. 69. Okay. So that's a few more than 26. So talk to us a little bit about that and your past life. I mean, you've been very athletic your whole life. From what you're saying. Well, my model has always been, if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. So I try to do, like, every fun thing you could in my life. Like I said, hang gliding, skydiving, scuba diving, mountain climbing, sailing, riding fast, motorcycles, martial arts. All the fun things in the world. I used to do triathlons. At least all that 40,000 miles are running. I don't know how many miles of swimming and biking gives you metal fortitude. Just keep trying stuff. But basically, my son saved me twice now because once I couldn't move anymore, I started gaining weight. So I ended up gaining, like, £100. And my son came by and he was telling me about the ketogenic diet. And I'm like, hey, that sounds interesting. So I started doing some research on that. And I went on one of those Ketogenic Facebook groups, and it's just, like, success story after success story. And I'm like, Well, I'm going to try that. So we got all the carbs out of the house, started doing the keto diet, and I ended up losing £100. My wife lost, like, 50 or £60. Her best friend lost like, £50. It's like crazy found out they've been lying to us for, like, because when I was, like, earlier in, like, the 80s and stuff, I could never understand why I wasn't getting the results. I thought I should be getting from all the working out I was doing. Turns out, nutrition, that food pyramid. They need to flip that thing on its head.

So yeah, I lost 100 lbs. But another fantastic side effect is my pain level went from like a nine to ten to like a one or two. Really? Yeah. Like, my body still like my feet and hands and fingertips are numb. But it's not like I'm on fire anymore because that was dramatic because I figured, like, losing the weight because my muscles get weaker. I have less weight. It'd be easier to move around. So I ended up losing £100 there with everything that you've done in your life, all these exciting things that you've done, like you say, if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. What are your thoughts on society today and young people? And there's just so many people who are sitting in front of the television consuming. They're staring at their cell phones. There is a whole world out there for these young people to be out experiencing and having the ultimate life that they could have. And yet they're sitting at home, experiencing other people's lives through a cell phone screen. What are your thoughts on all of this? Well, I'm just glad not every camera when I was growing up because I'd probably still be in prison. Really crazy stuff we did when I was a kid. I don't know about you, but basically, I was born in 1957 and back then there was a lot of Lazay. Their mantra was go out and play, and hopefully you'll come back at the end of the day. So we did a lot of that playing in the forest. And so I feel like I just had a grandson who was born a few months ago, and I was talking to his dad about how he's going to be living in interesting times because barring unforeseen catastrophe, he'll probably see the next century come around. Things aren't looking that good. I pretty much gave up on trying to convince people what's good for them. Like if they ask, I'll tell them, but otherwise, because I don't know how many times I've had because I've had plenty of people like, wow, they hadn't seen me for a while. Like last time they saw me, I was in a wheelchair, and now I'm like running up mountains and they're like, what happens? Yeah, I can do that. I don't know where the intrinsic motivation comes from to want to exercise or work out or go have fun. But yeah, I'm thinking screen time is definitely not helping in that process. I think it's probably a learn skill to be honest with you going out and running a marathon isn't if somebody tries to tell you that running a marathon is pain free. I don't know what drug they're taking, but putting yourself through pain both mentally and physically is really good for your body. We were talking about David Goggins a couple of days ago and how he believes that pain is a vital part of our lives. And so there's so many people who are so comfortable in life right now. And this goes to the Wim HOF method, which is what we're going to talk about here in a minute. As a society, we're traveling from one box to another. Everything is climate controlled. It wasn't that long ago that people were living in the elements and the cold and the heat. And now our bodies are so spoiled in what we have now that I think we're losing something and 70 degree boxes all the time. It's unbelievable. People don't realize just how unhealthy living in these conditions are without putting our bodies through some type of discomfort. So let's talk about the Wim HOF method, walk us through how you found out about it. And really, what convinced you to say, screw it. I'm going to give it a go. Well, once again, my son came to my aid there because he came by one day and he was telling me about it. I told you we talked before, like, two and a half years ago, if you would have told me like, look, man, you do these breathing exercises and then get in cold water and it will really help. I'd be like, That's crazy because it just sounds. I mean, when you just say it off hand, it does sound like, yeah, that's not a thing. You're a Kook. But anyway, he piqued my interest because I'm like, Well, what the docs are doing ain't working, which was basically nothing. So, like, I watched some YouTube videos because if you do Wim Hoff and YouTube, there's, like, thousands of results come up. I think it was yesterday's video where they went to Poland, and he had them just, like, jump in the water and no preparation. Anyway, I watched some videos and I read that book that Doesn't Kill US by Scott Carney, investigative journalist. And I'm like, there's something going on and there's like, some anecdotal Evans with people that had rheumatoid arthritis and other stuff where they'd seen results. I'm like, hey, give it a shot because I was always a believer. A little discomfort every day leads to a better life. If you do the hard thing, every day makes the rest of your life easy. Yeah. Like before the pandemic or right when the pandemic started, I had finished three months across it. Really? Yeah. So I was like, but anyway, my son came by, told me about it. I'm like, okay, I'm going to give it a good shot. So I started doing it, doing the breathing exercises. I didn't buy the Wim HOF. I just watched some YouTube videos, and there's a Wim HOF app, which I think it's like, 30, $40 a year, but I mostly use it for the they have a breathing timer and thing that keeps track of your results. Yeah, that. But I think I'm on. I'm up to, like, 1000 hours or something to hold in my breath. Anyway, so I started doing the breathing and cold water because I live in Montana, where we have well water. And so it's like 48 degrees nice and chilly right away. My body felt better, like felt more alive but didn't work any better. So around the 30th day, like I said, I could still walk just really badly. I'd, like, basically stagger over to the corner of the bed, the next corner of the door frame, so on and so forth. So yeah, I've had to use, like, a cane and Walker in the house and occasionally wheelchair. So around the 30th day, I got up to go to the bathroom in the morning, and I was just, like, walking normally. And I'm like, what the fuck? And ran down the hallway and my wife's like, Why are you running? I'm like, because I could for the first time in five years, which was crazy. And then basically after that, my performance got better and better because I can tell we're in like, a tug of war with whatever my autoimmune problem is, because if I miss a day or two of Wim HOF, I can immediately feel my body get less responsive, which makes it easy to stay motivated. But my normal routine is normally I'll do between five and six or seven rounds of Wim hop breathing and then do some meditating, and then I'll take the dog for a hike up the mountain. Because where I live, I go out my door and go up the mountain. I think in 3 miles there's almost 2000ft elevation change. So basically we're hiking uphill and then running downhill, which I never thought I'd be doing again in my life. So I'm like, full of gratitude. Plus, my world travels have made me grateful for stuff like electricity that's on 24 hours a day, clean water that comes out of a pipe in your house and indoor toilets. What's your thoughts on the importance of gratitude and how everybody should be more grateful for what they have in their life? Oh, yeah. I'm thinking gratitude is the key to happiness because I know I drive around, like, where I live. I'm just like, America is just so ridiculously wealthy because they're just constantly building, like, more storage units around here. And I'm like, we are so wealthy that people have to have another house to keep the stuff they never use. Absolutely unbelievable, isn't it, man, when you go and you visit these third world countries, which you definitely have spent a fair amount of time traveling, you see, you just realize how much money we really have. We are in excess. We are very wealthy. We have nothing to be complaining about. Yeah, I read a thing awhile ago where they were asking Americans how much they thought the average global income was, and their answer was around $20,000 a year. Real answer, $2,000 a year. There's still like a billion people that don't have access to a telephone. Man, it's crazy. A lot of these countries, too. They completely skipped from no phone to cell phone. I would say that the craziest thing that I've seen while traveling in India is some farmer without shoes, plowing his field with his oxen, and he's got one hand up to his ear with his smartphone. Yeah. Changing quickly. Yeah. Which it's crazy. It's unfortunate because now it seems as if this technology is now because it's spreading into countries like India. The amount of people who are ungrateful in India now is so much higher because they can see what the rest of the world has. And the grass is always greener on the other side. And so people want more. So I don't know how healthy that is for people to be able to focus on other people's things that they have right now. We can all go on YouTube and wish that we were some famous person with millions of dollars. It's easy to think that that would be a great lifestyle. But at the end of the day, I don't know, there's a lot of baggage that comes with that, too. Yeah. Well, as you can see how many rich people are miserable, like Anthony Bourdain killed himself. And like, this dude have, like, the best gig in the world. Yeah. No kidding. Okay, so let's go back to this Wim HOF method. So there's two main elements to the Wim HOF method. There's the breathing. And then there's the cold water therapy. What exactly are you doing with the breathing exercises? And how does this actually work in your system explain to me. I could tell you that. Yeah. Because basically delving in the engineering and Sciences. I like doing research. So, yeah, there was a Nobel Prize awarded in 2019 for research into Hypoxia intermittent factor, because basically what you're doing with the Wim HOF method is you're blowing the CO2 out of your system, which that's what leads to, like, your tingling in your fingers and your head and your feet. And all that is from the because CO2 is in your blood as carbolic acid. So as you're doing this breathing, you're blowing off. You're not really increasing your O two, because Wim HOF is like oxygen flows through your body. Yeah. It's always flowing through your body. What you're basically doing is getting rid of this carbon dioxide, which makes your blood more alkaline and do your breathing. I usually do, like, 50, 60 breaths and then exhale and then hold your breath because your blood is more alkaline. The bore effect keeps the hemoglobin from letting go of the oxygen molecules that are attached to it. So your blood oxygen will stay at 99% for, like, a minute or two. But all your cellular oxygen levels will drop down to 50% or 60%, which signals your body like, oh, we got to do some surviving around here. We got to clean up. And also in the low oxygen environment, stem cells can come out of the bone marrow in your body and wander about a bit fixed up. There's also a great podcast called Science on the Rocks, which is two neuroscientists that talk about the science of Wimha, which I listen to. A bunch of their stuff, is also very interesting. So basically, what you're doing is when you do the intermittent hypoxia, it signals your body to turn on about 50 pairs of jeans that are normally turned off. But yeah, if you're interested or if anybody listening is interested. I'd recommend reading the Nobel Prize thing very interesting. And then the cold water kind of works synergistically with that, because I think, personally, that the breathing does most of the heavy lifting as far as your immune function. But the cold also helps with, like, this last winter, I was like, blowing snow in my pajamas. I think I sent you a picture of that with, like, snow all over my arm there. Yeah. Wearing a T shirt and T shirt and sweatpants out there blowing snow for, like, an hour and a half. Wow. Crazy. How not cold. I was like, when I first got my dog there in February. I was like, walking up the mountain there with just my Tshirt and sweatpants. The other thing that people need to understand about Wim Hawk is, first of all, Google his name. And there's all sorts of information on all this stuff. But he's not just some Cook that's, like training people to do something that's not very scientific. There are scientists that have been involved with studying what Wim HOF is doing. And one of the experiments that they did is they took Wim HOF into a controlled environment. They gave him some type of a toxin in his body. I can't think of the name of the toxin, but basically, it was dead flu flu cells that would trick your body into thinking that you had the flu for a couple of hours before it figured out it was a false alarm. That's right. And basically through this breathing exercise, he was able to control it's like, they never put this toxin into his body. He basically just got a mild headache, and that was it. And then they were like, obviously, you're a genetic freak. So he's like, Well, give me ten students. I'll train them and we'll do it over again. So he did ten students like, hey, all ten of them only got very mild symptoms or no symptoms. Yeah. So there's definitely something to this. And there's a lot of stories out there of how this has changed people's lives, so definitely should be looking into this. You've been doing this for two or three years now, and your life has been changed dramatically from the five years that you were in a wheelchair just because of the pain. Besides the pain, I also had muscle weakness and atrophy and gastropyses. So I'd throw up every day, and my autonomic nervous system was messed up. So, like, when I was supposed to be sweat and I'd get, like, goosebumps instead. And it was like, all kinds of stuff. Like I said, pain got so bad at one point, I was given serious thought that killing myself, but a trip to the locked Ward. But I called the line very helpful. So they helped me out there. But, yeah, the pain was, like, unbelievable. But Luckily, I got through that crisis and lived to tell about it. And now everything's looking up. Yeah. Well, after experiencing all of that and then finding something like this Wim HOF method and just how much it's changed your life, my guess is that you're kind of a preacher of the Wim HOF method. Yeah. Well, I tell people about it. But like I said, people are always saying the problem with large groups of people. It's the people because I've had I don't know, many people. I was like, hey, this happened to me and they're like, yeah, I could never do that. Or I can't do cold water. It sounds too hard. It proves that they're not desperate enough because, like you said, it's a great motivator, knowing that if you skip a couple of days and you start to feel some of these things coming back, it's a great motivator to keep you doing it. Oh, yeah. Yes, it is. Wow. Easy for me to stay motivated. Well, I was pretty motivated anyway, to begin with. Like I said, I've been some kind of athlete for, like, 40 years. It helps that you already had a strong mind to begin with going into this. Well, I'm a Buddhist. I became a Buddhist, like, ten years ago, too. And all that meditations helped out. So you're married Don? Yes. 41 glorious years. I had the foresight to marry the trophy wife first. So there's a whole different story from her angle because for her to stick by your side through all of this is phenomenal. And you must have a very special lady there. Yes, I do. We've been through some stuff. Like, the time we moved here is our 24th move in 41 years. So now you're living in Montana? Yeah. And I'm living on eleven acres here outside Missoula, Montana, man, what a blessing. That's so awesome. Yeah. I want to send you some pictures on text, so I get done. Yeah. Send me some photos. I'd love to see that. Like we were talking about earlier. My wife and I, we were living there in Missoula for about a year and a half, and my wife is from very North Montana northwest, Eureka, Montana, right there, next to the Canadian border in Southern Canada. There. Yeah. The mountains are just absolutely phenomenal up there. And where we live now, we're definitely missing the mountains a lot. You get spoiled when you can drive in, Missoula, you can drive 15 minutes in any direction and find some major trail that will take you to some mountain peak somewhere. Yeah, well, as I said, there's a trail head, like a mile and a half from my driveway. So I just walk up there and keep going up the mountain. So it's not even a road. It's an actual designated hiking trail. Well, we used to call Fire Trail when I was a kid, like a two Lane track up the mountain there's called TV Mountain up there. There's, like eight or ten of those giant TV antennas. They have access up there. The Northwest energy goes up there to work on their power stuff, but basically it's just a National Park Service. Besides those people, nobody else can drive up there. I know what mountain you're talking about. I used to access it from what did they call it? Right next to the gas plant there. Yeah, I can't think of it right now. Yeah, man, I had a lot of fun on those trails up there. I probably climbed to the top of that thing, like, 50, 60 times in a year and a half that we were there. I know, for my 64th birthday, I hiked up to the M for the first time. Did you? That's so awesome. Wow. What a cool hike that is. That's a lot more people up there. Well, I don't want to keep you too long here, Don. But do you have any advice for any young people out there? There's so many people who are staring at their devices, who are staring at the television and not getting out and living the life that they've been blessed with. And before too long that life may be gone. It may be altered and people need to live their lives. Now. Do you have any advice for these people? Yeah. Basically turn off your screen and go out and do things instead of watching somebody else do it, go out and do it yourself. It's as simple as that pretty much. I've come through my meditation practice to think that basically everybody those little shopping carts where they have a steering wheel on. You see kids in there and they think they're driving. That's pretty much all of us. We think we're driving, but we're not walking out of the house. You might get hit by a car today, but nobody thinks about that once again, leading to the gratitude part. I don't know how familiar with Buddhism, but they have this thing called The Five Daily Reflections, which I have on my refrigerator and look at them every morning when I have my first cup of coffee. But basically it says I'm not beyond death. I'm going to die. I'm not beyond sickness, I'm going to get sick. I'm not beyond getting old. I'm going to get old. Everything I own and love is going to be taken away. And the only thing left is your Karma or your actions. Don you have spoke some wise words? And I am so thankful to have had you on the podcast and heard your story. And if there's anybody out there who is struggling with who knows what? Chronic pain of some kind, maybe somebody out there who's struggling with depression, even this Wim HOF method might actually really change your life. And I highly recommend that you look into it and look into the science of it and why it actually works. Do you have any last words before I let you go? Don. Yeah. If you're going to do it, give it a good shot because it took, like I said, my body felt better right away, but didn't work any better until around 30 days. But I'd give it at least a month or two before you decide it's not for you, because a life changer for me and a lot of other people. Well, that's another thing I liked about Wim HOF was he's, like, went to scientists and went, hey, I could do this. Could you explain that they're like, no, but we'll give it a shot because he's done all kinds of studies with scientists trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah. He climbed up to what, 26,000ft on Mount Everest in Sandals. Yeah, he also does climbs Mount Kilimanjaro every year with the group. And I think they've set a new record for every year for, like, the last four or five years for going up and down that mountain. Pull out that phone that we keep telling you guys to spend less time on and search wimhaf W-I-M-H-O-F. And do your own research people. It's amazing. It's amazing what it could do for you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Don, this has been fantastic, and it's been great to get to know you a little bit. And for everybody out there listening to the podcast, thank you for sticking around to the end. I'm so humbled by all the people who are here, and it's not about me. It's about the people who we have on the podcast. It's about the stories, and your life could be changed by listening to the podcast by some of these stories. So I recommend go back, listen to some of these amazing episodes, and we will talk to you guys next time.