23. Breaking a Speed Record on the Appalachian Trail - Dan Binde

When I think of adventure the first person that comes to my mind is today's guest. Dan Binde is the very definition of a thru-hiker in my opinion. Dan has walked over 24,000 miles since 2015. Through hiking many trails such as the Pacific Crest Trail, The Continental Divide Trail, The Appalachian Trail, and many more. In 2017 Dan was able to accomplish his main goal of breaking the self-support speed record of The Appalachian Trail. This episode has been broken up into two parts. Follow Dan on Instagram @crazyknotts or visit his website www.crazyknotts.com

Mentally, It's very hard to push yourself that hard and wake up and have motivation. I took the concept of sleeping so many minutes, then just hiking as far as I could and then sleeping for so many minutes. So a lot of times on my speed record, I would sleep right on the trail, and then I would sleep until someone walked by. And then I'd wake up and they'd ask me basically, if I was okay and I was like, yeah, thanks, man. You just woke me up. I'm ready to go again. They had absolutely nothing to disprove, like my speed record, but they were just like trying to bash me constantly. It was just like it didn't feel like I broke a speed record. It felt like I was being interrogated constantly because what I went through was no one should ever go through that. Hey, what's going on? Everybody? It's Erin, and it's the Simply Overcoming podcast. Welcome back to another episode. I am so excited about today's episode. I'm beyond stoked, and that is because when I think of adventure, the first person that comes to my mind is today's guest. And really, I can't believe I haven't reached out to him sooner. Dan Bendy is the very definition of a through hiker. In my opinion, Dan has walked over 24. 0 mile since 2015 through hiking many long distance trails such as the Pacific Crest Trail, the Continental Divide Trail, and the Appalachian Trail. And in fact, in 2017, Dan was able to accomplish his main goal of breaking the self support speed record of the Appalachian Trail. And I'm really excited to dive into that today. But Dan has also toured Alaska three different times on foot. He's crossed the Brooks Range twice, and then in 2020, he was back in Alaska, traversing 2500 miles amongst Dan's many physical endurance feats. Dan also has a crazy story about getting stuck in India in early 2020, when the world was hit by the unspeakable virus. Dan has been some place. Basically, this guy has it going on. So Dan, first off, thank you for being open and willing to be on the podcast today. Yeah, for sure. Thanks for reaching out to me, man. It's been quite the adventures the last couple of years. Yeah. So I have to first of all, ask you, have we met somewhere along the way? Because I know we were both on the Pct in 2015, and I think you reached out to me on Facebook a few years ago, but I could never remember if we ran into each other or if we just connected through one of the Pacific Crest Trail pages. That's a good question, man. I thought I might have ran into you when I was hallucinating on my Appalachian Trail speed record, but that's what I was thinking, but I probably not that. Oh, no kidding. No, I've never been on the Appalachian Trail. Definitely something that I'd like to do in the near future, but that hasn't happened yet. No. I spent a little bit of time in 2015 on the Pct. I just did about half of it. But anyway, and I know you were there in 2015 as well, so I was just curious. Definitely. I mean, you see the people in the notepads and stuff and reaching out names, come and go up and down the trail very fast. Totally. You have a chance of that? I just wanted to mention, don't be afraid to interject if you have a story or experience that is particularly on your mind. I look at this as like a legacy piece for you. Yeah. Sometimes it can be the smallest little things, and it'll spark an idea of, like or not an idea or like something that's happened on my journey. I'm like, oh, yeah. I totally forgot about that until someone brings something up. Yeah. And I suppose with all the stories and experiences that you've had, a lot of those things are kind of on the back of your mind. When we spoke yesterday, you briefly said to me, and I quote, you said today was Cray Cray. I was working on my skulls from Alaska. Bro, I do want to talk to you more about that in a little while. But first of all, where are you calling from? Where are you from? I basically grew up in Lake Park, Minnesota, and I went to high school there for 18 years, and I went to College an hour west is about Fargo Moorehead area, and that's my home base. So basically, every year after I get done hiking, I come back Fargo crush some hours and start traveling or training and thinking about ideas and routes and planning as much traveling as you do. Does it still feel really good to come home temporarily? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. There's just nothing like home. I mean, it's kind of weird because I can't even remember what summers are like in Minnesota because I'm gone every summer. So it's been nice to be back in Minnesota this year. Nice. Excellent. Oh, I meant to ask you, how did the boundary waters trip turn out, or are you still working on that? Yeah. So I was planning on doing every Lake above 100 acres. And so I made a crazy route through. There's a central section, and it's roughly 550 Lakes above 100 acres. It's 1.1 million acres. So it was about 1200 miles route in Portugal and getting more food and planning different routes. And I made it through half of it and about 600 miles. And I was catching massive Northern walleye bass. It was a lot of fun. I was just like a lot of the Lakes started looking alike, and the fishing, the fishing was good. But, yeah, the Lake started looking alike, and there wasn't too much of a change, which I was looking forward to, like on the Pacific Crest Trail every 100 miles. You can start seeing a little change and you notice things, but up there, it's like they kind of look the same. It's nice to be able to sort of go through those different climates when you're on trail. I know on the Pct, by the time you reach the end of the desert, you're like, yeah, I'm done with the desert. I'm ready for some mountains. Oh, yeah, definitely. And that hits you hard, like, you jump right up the ceiling pretty fast. Oh, yeah. That's an emotional experience coming through the John Meer trail when you're just starting to hit the JMR, you're like, oh, man, this is fantastic. This is good. This is what it's all about. But the desert has its own beauty, for sure. Yeah, definitely. Some days it's, like, brutally hot. But you remember those days, too, the good warm days. Man, I did a fair amount of night hiking. I don't know how much. I'm guessing you probably have done quite a lot of night hiking as well, but I always loved the night hiking. Yeah, it's not too much. But, I mean, maybe, like, seven days out of a through hike. Yeah, maybe go adventure out at night. But for the most part, I stuck with the day hikes and stuff got you. But at the night time with the stars and maybe you run into people and you hike together. It's always fun, too. Oh, yeah, totally. Absolutely. Dan, I have always been curious. How did this whole journey start? What sparked your interest in long distance through hiking? That's kind of a long story. But I grew up in a pretty adventurous family and taking family trips. And basically, whenever you're a senior in high school, you pick whatever anywhere in the 48, whatever destination. And over Thanksgiving is about ten days of vacation. So we would all jump in the car and go to wherever my older siblings wanted to go. And then eventually that transferred into going up to Glacier National Park for three or four years. And then I got into ran into a guy in the back country in Glacier National Park saying how brutal and awesome the Pacific Crest Trail was. And he ate, like, macaroni and cheese all the way through Washington, and he was like, I'm totally done with the Pct. But then he also had, like, crazy other stories. And so I was like, throw it in the dirt, took a picture of it so I could remember got back home. And then the next year in 2014, I went out and did the Wonderland Trail just to figure out if I want to start through hiking. So then I commit in 2014 to the Pacific Crest in 2015. Boy, the Wonderland is just beautiful. Oh, yeah. It kicked my butt because my backpack was like, Bill Bryce and so heavy going through the learning experience of what you should have and what you don't have to take. Oh, yeah. But I was packing pounds of deli meat and stuff. I was eating pretty good on the water lid. That's awesome, man. When I got into backpacking, I had no idea what I was doing, and I ended up in the Grand Canyon going down into the Grand Canyon with about £65, like a moron for one night. And it was in August too. So it was like, oh, it cools down to like 120 a night. It was so brutal. It was the dumbest thing I could have ever done. But man, definitely got the memories. Oh, yeah, man. Awesome. So you did the Pct in 2015, and it was kind of interesting because I was reading on your website that you said on the website that you were even pondering the idea of the Appalachian Trail when you were on the Pct. Is that correct? Yes. I don't like to commit to something until I'm like, no, I'm going to do it. And that can really be hard to figure out when that stage is. But I don't want to commit to the at till. I was halfway through the Pct and a lot of the front runners on the Pct in 2015. I didn't even, like, run into Till, like, the end of the Sierras, and then it took a week off and then double magic with quite a bit Himalayas in Nepal, in Alaska. But he was ahead of me. He jumped over the at and I followed him down the at, but yeah, I committed about halfway through. Once I got through the Sierras, I thought there was a good chance I'd still have just enough time to go southbound and still make it. And it was getting cold by the time I got Springer Mountain, but it was a nice experience going southbound with less hikers on the Appalachian Trail. At what point did you decide that you wanted to attempt breaking the unsupported speed record? Yeah, the self support speed record. I was contemplating that actually on the Appalachian Trail in 2015. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Initiate broke the speed record in 2015. Yes, I think so. I never ran into her or whatnot, but when I got word of her, she was on the at. Maybe she finished before I even got over there. I'm not even sure, but I was rolling some crazy miles through some rolling Hills, and I was carrying all my heavy gear and whatnot. And I was still crushing it. So that's when I kind of pondered the idea of possibly maybe doing a speed record in the future, like, maybe I can do this. Oh, yeah. I like challenges and whatnot? But it was definitely a learning curve. But yeah, I was doing some crazy miles when I was going southbound on on the at because actually, when I got over the At, I took a month off and I flew back home from my parents'anniversary, and then I flew back out to the at, so I finished December 7 at Springer Mountain, so I was doing some good miles, but then I still got, like, talked into going to hiker Thanksgiving. I got hauled in the van. I didn't have an option. Miss Janet, Ms. Janet threw me in the van. It's like, you got to go to hike. And thanks to you and I had a great time because it's away from my family. But then all my hiker friends, and that was a great time. Then I hit the Shannon Doe in the fall time. It was a good experience, although it was freezing rain and the Rockies by the time I got there. But it was good year in 2015. Have you ever run into repo out there on the trails? Oh, yeah. Reboot good old Rebo, man, that guy is out there on the Pct every year. Just slogging it. Oh, yeah. He's a funny dude. He's a character. I keep pondering the idea of calling him up and being like, hey, you want to be on the podcast? Just as like an excuse to get his story. I'm just really curious, dude, that's a great question, because I'm not even sure on that. I ran into my handful of times. I definitely know him. He knows me, and we keep in contact a little bit every maybe like, six months a year. It's like, hey, what's up, man? Like, crazy. But yeah, if you go on the PZT, you'll probably see them. Yeah, the whole mind over matter thing is so important. I've told people, if you want to go through, hike a trail, go out and hike 20 miles, and then if you're complaining by the end, maybe it's not for you. You really have to embrace the pain. You have to appreciate the pain, because even you as big of an athlete as you are. I assume that you definitely go through a pain and deal with problems along the way physically. Oh, yeah. Even like, going through Alaska the last time through the 2500 miles the first week when I started, I'm like, what am I doing with my life? I'm in the middle. I'm out of this beach. There is no one around. I might even be like running out of food in my first section, but I'm like, why I'm out here, and I'm like, I'm not working. I'm enjoying. I'm doing whatever I want to do. I'm out here with nature, enjoying amazing creations that very few people get to see. So yeah, for a lot of people, I just feel like, start slow and work your way up. And then eventually, whenever you get a good feel of what your challenge is, and if you want to take it on, that's great. But I always tell people I started doing 8 miles day on the Pacific Crest Trail in 2015, and I gradually worked my way up. Wow. Crazy. I wanted to ask you about ultra light. I wanted to have this conversation. I know, like you said when you started, you were carrying really heavy packs. But ultimately to go for the speed record, the unsupported speed record of the at, you really had to shave down your weight. And so what has been your journey with becoming more ultra light? So basically my whole idea is to carry big packs, but not carrying tons of heavy stuff in it. So normally I'm carrying my ULA Catalyst huge pack, massive pack, and my backpack. My sleeping bag has taken, like, half of that. And then the rest is all the same. So going from that all the way down to a speed record, I kind of contemplated hypothermia at night, and if I could make an emergency bivvy work. So there was a handful of nights I had, like, hypothermic conditions, and it got a little sketchy a handful of times. There's no doubt about it. But, I mean, just kind of like you said, mind over matter. And after I got certain ways, like, certain parts of the trail, it's like, okay, I can do that next section. I can do that next section now swapping on my shoes quite often. But, yeah, it's kind of just, like, drop it down. Basically, I was carrying food. I was eating, like 14 cliff bars a day. It was a lot of cliff bars. How do you break up a distance like that? Because if you come to the trail and you look at it as the full mileage, you may get overwhelmed. So are you breaking it up day by day? Are you breaking it up on a half day basis? How are you breaking this up in your mind so that it doesn't seem like such a massive project? Yeah. I feel like a lot of people do the section to section and then keep going on the next section for me. I'm always out there and I don't get too overwhelmed by the whole situation. If I'm not having fun for three days, then I'll have to really think about if I really want to stay on that trail, and if I really want to keep going. So that's why it was really hard when I was in the boundary waters this year because I don't, like, quitting what I'm setting out for. But I just wasn't enjoying it enough to stay out there. So yeah, everyone does. It a little bit different. Yeah. Some of it is just really your passion. You have to be passionate about it. If you're not, you probably shouldn't be out there. Definitely. Yes. Have you ever had any companies approach you about sponsoring you in any way, or have you ever tried to find some sponsors? Surprisingly, no. I've reached out to quite a few people, but I kind of have, like, drifted away from a lot of the reaching out and stuff. But my one sponsor is Zubas, my zebra pants. I was wearing Zuba constantly for the first three or four years. I wore two through the freezing series. And so I have 100% cotton pants on Zuba zebra pants, and I'm making it through 2015. There was quite a bit of snow for being early, and anything below my knees was all frozen at the end of the night. And my shoes are freezing at night. And I was still learning the ideas and the tricks to get past it all. Yeah, they thought it was crazy because even like, all the roads were shut down too when I was going through this year in 2015. So Kenny Meadows North, that road that drops down into Kenny Meadows North that was shut down. Everything was shut down. What time of year were you going through there? That is a good question. I would be so curious. I don't even know, because when I went through there in 2015, I dropped down into Lone Pine, and that night, like, 3ft of snow fell in the Sierras, and people were trying to pass and they couldn't get through. And then there was a body that was found, but it was like an old body. Somebody had, like, fallen and slid down the mountain on Forester Pass on Forester Pass. I camped down that path, man. Did you? I was literally a quarter mile away, probably when they found him, like, a week later or something. Wow. That's when the front runner supposedly up in front was I didn't have any maps or GPS. So I kind of wait and sat in when I had the snowline hit because I broke my phone. I didn't have Topo maps. I'm just going to sit on trail until Baller and Malcolm came. Then I hopped in with them. And then there was a big mile that caught up to me. He was a guy from Mexico City. He could crush some crazy miles. But then he took, like, a week off, then went to San Fran, came back, didn't have any proper gear. I went over for Surpass with Big Mile, and then he got freaked out, and I never saw him or heard him from him again because we camped like, three quarters of the way up on the path on the Ridge. And my big Agnes Fly Creek is going 45 degree angle all night. And I'm like, I can't do anything. It's a two man two. So I was like, over the trail and he's in a Bibby. But basically, after that, he built out a kirstarge, and then Baller and Malcolm caught up. And I know what you're talking about with those 3ft because we got to Mammoth, and I barely got in with Baller and Malcolm and the guys behind me, Boa Double Magic and a couple of other guys. They were like, going through crazy snow, and we made it into Mammoth Lakes. You guys just made it through. Yeah, that was crazy. That's crazy. I've had quite a lot of experience with mountaineering up to this point in my life. But when I was doing the Pct. I didn't have as much experience. And I have to say that if you have the proper gear, it's not that big of a deal passing through there, but it's like that person that doesn't have the proper gear. I mean, those are some proper steep mountains. And if you're hiking early in the morning when it's frozen and you don't have any type of crampons or micro spikes, rather, if you don't have anything to catch yourself. If you do slip and fall, I mean, the reality of slipping and falling down that mountain is definitely there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And that's why the hostels in, like, Lone Pine make a killing off of microspikes. Yeah, definitely. I had one scary incident when I was doing the Great Himalayan Trail in Nepal, and I didn't get the memo that you needed crampons, and I had a pretty scary situation. I was lucky I didn't break my leg because I was sliding down the mountain for quite a while. And like, somehow staying in between both sides of the rocks and my phone went off the mountain, and Luckily I was able to stop. But yeah, micro spikes. And even in the series with like, Glen Pass, they get steep real fast. Yeah. What is your thoughts? Because I think one of the conversations that I heard was people were like, okay, do we go with micro spikes and some type of an axe, or do we go with one versus the other? Which one would you rather go with one or the other? So that's a toss up. Yeah. I would definitely say what I used in Nepal was, how do they use them on the Pct, too? I think they're made by Corsa. They're luminous. They're like silver light. Are they like the walking pole slash? What do they call those? The walking pole with the axe end on it? No, I haven't used that one. It's crampons, but it's a little less points, but it's only, like, 14oz. Yeah, they're like the little micro spikes. Yeah, they're the little rubber. The ones that I had were like, red. Yeah, those are definitely micro spikes over crampons. It's kind of a yellow toss up, but I don't know. When I was going through, I had my course of ice axe, and I got the smallest version because it saved me, like, a half an ounce. Yeah, even though it wasn't, like, not the right size for me, but yeah, definitely. Even on the CDC, I had to use my core size axe once from. Oh, really interesting. What are your go to Trail runner these days? Go to Trail Runner. After doing the Arizona Trail attempting their speed record, I was using the speed goat twos, and there's just nothing like cushion. And so I would definitely do the speed of twos, and I got threes. But I don't get a speed run. I don't get out on trail and run too much. Believe it. Or not. I'm just starting to get back into running, but I'm more into, like, trekking. And then I feel like long endurance. I was up for that challenge and whatnot? But for, like, speed records and stuff, I feel like 700 to about 1200 miles is the most ideal, because then your body starts breaking down and it's really not healthy. Interesting. I have always said that I'm not really much of a runner, but when I get on a trail, I can average, like, a four or 4.3 miles an hour, just walking for hours and hours. And so you can put on the miles when you're fast when you're a fast tracker. So I mean, I definitely respect that. So I've been trying to get into running as well. I just went out on a 15 miles run yesterday, and I kind of felt like I wrecked myself a little bit because I wasn't ready for a 15 miles. I was just enjoying the weather. Miles, man. Like, it's not too hot outside, but yeah, if you're a fast Walker, it's pretty easy. My biggest day and nothing compared to any day you've ever done. But I did. 45 was my biggest day on the Pct, and that was just from, like, five in the morning until late mid evening. It wasn't that big of a deal. But if you just keep moving and you can put on the miles for sure, exactly. That's definitely the key. In 2015, I thought this one guy was super fast, and I always give them compliments. But finally, when I caught up, I'm like, Dude, you're slow, bro. But we always, like, keeping competition all the time. It's my buddy from Colorado double Magic. A lot of people know you as knots. And for people out there who don't know what a trail name is, can you explain to them what a trail name is trail name. So basically, you kind of got to find it yourself while you're out on the trail, and then people give it to you, too. So for me, knots for my dreadlocks. And then I got that hiking the Kecky COBIC Trail with my sister's father in law. So that kind of all started. I think that was 2014. And then following your 2015, they drove me out and dropped me off. And they did the 28 miles from Oak Spring Creek, 28 miles Mark South. And then I jumped back up and went north from there. But I hiked the first 28 miles from them. So, yeah, people give you the name and then you got to accept the name, and then it kind of like rolls with you. I got mixed emotions on it's. Not for everyone, but for the most part, that was like, the big divide with the Pct and at wasn't it, like, more the Appalachian Trail doing the trail names, like, way back in the day and Pct weren't doing it? I think so. But by 2015, I felt like it was very much adopted on the Pct. I didn't know anybody by their real name. I can just rattle off all of these trail names, and I didn't have a clue who they were. The ones that come to mind is like, Green Flash. Swampwater was a gentleman that I met still having to swamp water story was supposedly he spent many years in South America, and he ended up there was a drought, and he drank swamp water for a really long time without boiling it. And supposedly he was doing the whole Pct without a water filter. And I hiked with this guy for a few days, and I seen him drink the grossest water without filtering it. And he's like, oh, I can't get sick. He never got sick then, huh? Dude, I hiked with this guy for two or three days, and we came upon this spring in Southern California, and he started making fun of me for filtering the water. I was like, Well, it looks pretty clean. I mean, I drank water growing up in North Idaho. We used to drink water without filtering it all the time up in the mountains. So I was like, oh, dude, I don't have to filter this. So I didn't filter it. And then a couple of days later, it was my 21st birthday, and I came down with the worst jardia, dude. And I ended up, oh, I ended up in a hotel room. Just that is not fun at all, Brown. At least he had a hotel room, right? Yeah. It was the hotel room in. Oh, my, I can't remember. It's a pass. It's just outside of La heading east. There's a McDonald's there. I can't remember CAHone Pass. It was caught pass bro. Right by, rightwood? Yes. I spent the night in that hotel, my 21st birthday in the hotel. They're just miserable as I'll get out. Nice. Yeah. So I would really like to transition and talk a little bit more about your speed record for people out there who have no concept in their mind of what it takes to beat a speed record like this on the Appalachian Trail. What kind of miles were you doing every day? So when I first started the first day, it's 60.1. I believe training is huge. So to do my main idea of that speed record, I did about 1500 miles. So I did from Ghost Ranch South on the Continental Dubai Trail, 700, 800 miles to the border. And then I hitchhike, and it took me only one day to hitchhike, believe it or not, from the CDC Lordsburg all the way to the trailhead of the Pacific Crest Trail. And then I started going north. And then I got off at Sam Hill Pass, right. When you start the Sierras and stuff, it's not too far up there. It's beautiful going down through some pass because not very many people do it. So then right after that, I was trying to make it all way to Bishop Pass, but there's always that Cornus that gnarly cornice. So there's very few hikers that can get up and over that and drop down to fish up. So I didn't want to take the chance. And I definitely didn't have any ropes. And so I went out at sawmill and it was still a little sketchy. I was glistening down the path for quite a while, and then I dropped into 395 and then a hitchhike to up to Reno to fly out to the East Coast. But mainly, yeah, it takes a lot of training. I feel like I did too much training. Really explain that for me? Well, I just feel like, well, I was pushing it hard, too, because I was trying to make it closer to Reno before I started hitchhiking. And so I was pushing with a pretty heavy pack and through the series and having cold gear. But I feel like what, 1000 miles was more than enough for training for me. It doesn't. But yeah, mentally, it's very hard to push yourself that hard and wake up and have motivation. And so a lot of the times I took the concept of sleeping so many minutes and then just hiking as far as I could and then sleeping for so many minutes. So a lot of times on my speed record, I would sleep right on the trail, and then I would sleep till someone walked by. And then I'd wake up and they'd ask me basically, if I was okay. And I was like, yeah, thanks, man. You just woke me up. I'm ready to go again. But then maybe every week or two then I would just be completely drained. I'd have to sleep like, 12 hours straight. But for the most part, for me, I did a lot of walking on my application trail speed record, where you could get, like, a happy medium mix of running and then also walking. But when I started on my Appalachian Trail speed record, I was still sending out food jobs while I was hiking that blation trail. So I sent out all my food jobs by myself. And before I started hiking and then I still had a couple of resupplies. I need to figure out why I was on trail doing the speed record, too. So it was a little stressful. So basically the difference between a supported and an unsupported is you're completely on your own. You have to get yourself to town. You have to resupply on your own, get yourself back out to the trail and continue on your way. Yeah. So that really limits where you can reachupply for food and then where you can ship food and then also, like, not having a pacer, not having a wake up call or like anyone just to give you water when you need water. I mean, sometimes you got to go off trail to get water. It seems like the mental game would just be so much harder doing and unsupported, because you really have nobody there. Definitely. Yeah. For the most part, even though I wasn't like walking a super fast pace, I would run into people all the time on my speed record and just walk at 2 mph and just talk to people. And they're like, it's kind of like what I did when I was walking like, any trail. I like to talk to people and see their background life story a little bit like how they grew up and where they're at now. And so I did that a lot. When I was even doing my speed record, I would walk with people doing like, 2 mph, believe it or not. And just like to talk to someone because mentally, you just got to be able to you start to lose your mind. Yeah. When you don't talk to humans, you start to lose your brain. I mean, I was blowing past tons of people, but yeah, I just got to find that happy medium, too. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Timothy Olsen? Have you been following his journey? So is it the guy that did the Pct? Yeah. Okay. So believe it or not, I don't even pay attention to the speed records anymore after my incident, but my buddy from Colorado hit me up. He's like, Dude, are you serious? And he messaged me. I was like, okay, I don't have time for this right now. So two weeks later, I think it was like five days ago I looked up some stuff and I haven't done much information on it, but correct me if I'm wrong. He did lots of road walking because to get around the fire closers or he didn't even do road walking, any hitchhike or two cars and then kept going. It's hard to say because they're claiming that he now holds the speed record, the supported speed record. So I think he did road walking around, but whatever he did, it's supposedly legitimate. Yeah. How does that work? How is a record legitimate if you have to do a whole lot of road walking? Yeah, I totally disagree with that. If it's not the trail, if it's not the same aisles, it should not be the speed record. Talk to me about the politics of all of this. I feel like there's some politics behind this behind speed records. Yeah, definitely. Well, I've gotten out of it a lot now, but in 2017, right after I went through all that craziness, I was getting hit from every side, and they did a bit on me. I can't even remember what her name was, but she interviewed me and then she didn't get back to me. And then she posted stuff that wasn't even true. And then the judges for FKT, they're not even agreeing on the same rules and the same concepts. So I don't know who they're going through, but it's obviously they're letting people do this and then they're letting people do that. And then now they're doing a bunch of other stuff, too. So I haven't paid attention since 2017 too much. But did it kind of give you a distaste in your mouth for all of it? Yeah, definitely. Especially how I was treated. It was way over the top. I went in there, I did everything I needed to do my GPS, my Spot device broke literally three times my life. So now I have a garment enriched mini, but, yeah, my spot device. And even I was doing that. They had absolutely nothing to disprove, like my speed record. But they were just, like, trying to bash me constantly. They came up with tons of information because I talked to one guy, and then he tried to disprove everything. And then I was like, he came up with this one sheet, and he was like, well, then tried to disprove it, and I was like, I can, but I still have it in my Google documents, but it must have taken a little bit to get over that one, though. Yeah. The thing is, it didn't help that a chick cheated the year before and then trying to get sponsors. And then the other female with her saying that she hiked the at and the Pct on a robot leg. Do you remember that lady? I do remember hearing about her just briefly. It was on NBC, nighttime. It was on national news, man. And so this company was trying to sell their stuff, and that's how I took it. And so she said she did it. But, you know, the Pct, she claims she did it in the snow with her robot leg. And you can't do that. Not in snow, man. No, that's a hard one to believe. It's plainly obvious if you know anything about it and trying to sell some products, basically. And the thing is, when I did my speed record, I already did the Pct, the at and the CDT. I already did my Triple Crown, and I did the GDT and the Spear hiking Trail. So it's not my first, like, I do it the right way. And tons of people like, I've ran into you, they knew me and stuff. I talked to tons of people on the Appalachian Trail. I mean, there's tons of people like, what are you talking about? He clearly did it totally. I think there's a lot of people who are definitely on your side with this, but the politics of it just really did not seem in your favor whatsoever. Yeah. So basically, right. When I finished, I was like, okay, I finished. And Peter Bachwin was overseas internationally, and he doesn't even make a comment to me. He's like, Well, I'm overseas, like, I can't do this or that I'm on vacation. Like, okay, whatever. And then they finally get back to me a little bit, and they try to discredit me. It was just like, it didn't feel like I broke a speed record. It felt like I was being interrogated constantly because what I went through was no one should ever go through that. Yeah, that's awful. Well, just so you know, there was a lot of people out there cheering you on, man. And when you finish that up, man, we were definitely excited about what you had done. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. I guess the biggest thing that everyone got mad about was I can't remember what park it was, but it was further up. And then the chick before she clearly cheated and whatnot and totally disproved. So I was like, okay, anything I do do not go in a car. So I got to one park. And then I paid someone to go get me more batteries for my spot device. And then I wait in the park. And they're saying since I paid someone that I should be DQ for that, even though I didn't plan it ahead of time to pay someone like, I had to pay a driver at the park. I had to find a driver, pay a driver. And then I had to give money to a hiker to go to get batteries and come back. It was still unsupported. You are still doing all of that on your own. On the fly. Yeah. Self supported, self supported. Yeah, it's just nonsense with that. And the judges don't agree on, like, half of that, they don't all agree on anything. But the other cool thing was when I got up to Mokatadan the last big mountain, I have no clue how long I slept for. So my sister and then my dad drove out from Minnesota all the way to Maine, mokatada, and they were going to drive me all the way back. And I was just so destroyed. And I was probably, like, a mile from the top, and I was so destroyed, I laid down on a rock, and I have absolutely no idea how long I slept for. But I got back up after maybe 2 hours. I have no clue. And then, yeah, I finally made it up. And the funny thing was, people were bashing me online like, oh, he's standing on the side, and he's like, doing this. He's doing that. There's a Park Ranger up on top that was like, I talked to everyone up there. Everyone was chilled and popping champagne. Who is the guy that made $100,000 from Red Bull? I can't remember he failed two times to break the supported speed record. And then finally, Red Bull give him another chance for $100,000. And then he actually broke it. But now the guys coming after him with String, Bean and Joey, and even the guys. Now it just proves, like, how much you can push yourself as long as you train, right? You have correct care for your feet. You can really push yourself. Yeah, it's funny. I'm sitting here right now looking at the photo of you standing on the sign as you're talking about that. And in your boxers, what happened to your Zumbas? Well, I had to go out, man. Oh, totally. Totally. It was time to cut the Zumbas. Yeah, let them free. I mean, 100%. I wanted my sister to bring my Zubas so I could take a picture of my Zubas, and then no one probably would have believed me. Like, oh, he carried cotton pants for 2000 miles. Yeah, right. I wanted to repma Zuba because those guys are great, super comfortable pants. But I was going to actually do a handstand on the side, but I was too tight here, just too wrecked, destroyed. I couldn't even make it down the mountain. It took a long time to get down. What was the blister situation? Like, do you get blisters very often, for the most part, since I walked so many miles beforehand before starting the at speed record, I had plenty of calluses. And eventually your calluses can Harden up and crack, and that can be coming from. But for the most part, my feet are pretty solid. My big toes get pretty solid calluses ingrown toenails. That was a really big problem on the Appalachian Trail speed record. Yeah, I can see that. I kicked a rock in the Rhone Mountains, and then I finally made it out of Romes, and then I made it to Daleville. This is crazy. I haven't thought about this for, like, years, so I get down to the grocery store. I'm like, Holy shit, what am I going to do? I'm in pain. I Nick a rock, and I'm like, yelling, like, even in the middle of the night, I feel bad because I probably woke some people up on my speed record because I nicked something not being able to see because I only had my headlamp on. I didn't have, like, a light on my hip or on my knees for my feet. So, yeah, I would scream like, crazy. And so I was like, trying to bend the nail back out and almost passed out. And eventually someone told me on Facebook, I was like, oh, dude, what am I going to do up on my feet? And the one guy that probably on the Pct said, Use Super glue or not super glue. It was liquid bandage, so it's in a glass bottle. And so I was putting that on multiple times a day, and it's definitely not healthy because I would sweat it off. And so I'd have to keep putting it on and keep putting it on. And so finally, after I'm up probably two days on the speed record at that time, I made it to White Mountains, and then I continued on. I'm at Mount Washington. I go downstairs there's, like, a downstairs for the hikers to hang out. Relax, like you made it all the way to the top and usually getting hit by crazy wind. Just to relax, I put my liquid bandage up on a table and it rolled out the table glass bottle. And it shattered at that time. I'm like, I'm done. I can't hitchhike in the town because I think Gorm, once you get all the way down and then through the Wildcats, you got to hitchhike an hour to the west and then an hour back. And I was like, there's no way I'm over. It's done. And I'm like, 1700. I'm not even sure it's in Vermont, I believe. Yeah, after that, I thought it was done after that, too. So there's so many Hills and valleys for that speed record. But I got down to the visitor center. Once you get off Mount Washington and you get to the visitor center. And I was like, talking to Park Ranger. There is a, like, is there anyone driving in town? Can I pay anyone to drive me in a town? I got to get liquid bandage. This guy with a massive backpack walks into the visitor center. He was like a day hiker. He was like, up in the mounds for, like, one or two days. He had everything in his backpack. He's like, liquid bandage. I've got liquid bandage. He was carrying a glass bottle of liquid bandage. And so I was like, what are the chances, man? So I was like, heck, yes, I pretty much grabbed it. I probably tugged them. Probably not kissed. I should have kissed them. And then I was out. That is fantastic. I remember seeing your toe on social media. You posted some photos, and it was like, There is no way that he has the time to hike in, to see a doctor, get anything proper to take care of this thing. I was in pain. I was in crazy amounts of pain. Every single rock I kicked, I was in brutal amounts of pain. So I've taken both my roots and both my big toenails. Now, have you? I've wondered about that. I know that can be a really big problem for people who do long distance hiking and running, too. And I think part of the problem was I was kicking steps in the snow in the Sears. I think that might have led to some of the stuff, but, yeah, I didn't have crampons, which I probably should have, because 2017 was a pretty crazy year, too. It's even worse in 2015, when I went through, wow, but 2017, I was kicking steps, and that probably started something it's hard to pinpoint. But I did kick a rock really hard in the Rowan Bonds. As you were speaking about this, my mind keeps going back to, you know, Gary Robbins is I do not actually okay. All right. Never mind. He held the speed record. I think it was 2015 for the Wonderland Trail, and he held it for a couple of years. But my point to that was just the fact that once it's been done, somebody comes along and it's like, I can shave a couple of days off of that. And the amount of time that's getting shaved off of some of these trails, like the Wonderland Trail. It's crazy. I mean, we're getting so close to what the human body can do. It's like, what's the next person going to shave off? Because you can't shave off more than an hour. There's just no way. It's unbelievable. Definitely. It's so calculated. Well, that's the thing. I was right at that turning point when I was getting in on the at, such, like, starting so early. I knew, like, Joey Camps and Stringbean were the real deal. So I knew I could beat the speed record. But I didn't know. I was pretty sure that they could probably like, oh, do my time too. So I wasn't surprised when they broke my speed record, too. But from what I went out there for was to beat the speed record. And I was pretty sure I could do that. Speed rack has been broken all the time. People are having, like, better equipment, better shoes and then also, like, different techniques on diet, too. Oh, sure. Yeah. What was your diet? Like, my diet on the Appalachian Show was pretty bad. I'm pretty surprised. So basically I'd have to look through my notes and stuff again. But from what I remember, it's 14 clip bars, basically a day. Instant rice. There's not much nutrition and instant rice, Turkey burger, hamburger. And then basically, like, any gas station and just a pizza. Tons of coffee. I never drink coffee before, like, the speed record. And I was drinking so much coffee on the speed record. And basically every town, along with all the food resupplies I would get, I would just load up at gas stations and like, one guy in Duncan on Duncan, Pennsylvania. I walked in the gas station in my briefs. He's like, Whoa, bro. That's pretty crazy, man. He's like, much props, man. Thanks, dude. Normally I'm not worn brief anywhere, but for the at, you're not typically that guy. No, I'm definitely not that guy. Not until I ran into chips on the Appalachian Trail going southbound. He's from Pennsylvania, and he did a lot of hiking in the breeze because he was from PA, and it's always hot and humid there. Yeah. Do you have anything right off that could come to your mind that you would change if you did it again. Yeah, definitely the diet. I was not eating very good. I bought the cheapest shoes. So my technique. I went through twelve pairs of shoes, but they were the ASIC Ventures. Fives or sixes. They were $50 shoes. Yeah. Every 100 and 5200 miles. I did another pair of shoes, but they were not much cushion, like cushion and shoes. Very valuable. Definitely Garmin and reach with the tracking stuff nowadays. But I had a spot device. It just broke on me. And I was contacting spot Gen threes, and they actually sent me a brand new device on that speed record. So that was the crazy thing about it. But yeah, the battery life is also better, but definitely the tricky thing about it. Like with the Arizona trail speed record, what I was able to finagle my idea my way and doing the speed record is tricky because you got the first 150 miles, you have straight desert, you're going to get crushed. So if you hit that 1st 150 miles good temperatures, then you get up out of that crazy desert. So it's kind of just hitting it at the right time, too. And if it rains too much, then your feet get clay and muddy on the Arizona trail. But then also, if you start too late, all the water sources are dry. So it's really if you start too early, you're hitting snow and Flagstaff, and that's not just that trail. There's Apple and show for sure, and also the Pacific Crest. But yeah, it's definitely tricky with timing. There's just a lot of strategy that goes into this. Oh, yeah. Definitely. If I try the Arizona Trail speed record or the Colorado trail speed record again, I'll probably do it support it just so I can deal with family and friends. And like, any of my hiking buddies don't want to come out and pace me and stuff, I'd be totally up for that. Totally. Totally. Dude, let me know. I want to come out and join you. I'm going to come out and join you, man. I'll do it. That'd be pretty crazy. Dude. Man, that's awesome. But right now, I'm not planning for that. I don't like to push my body too much. After I tore my Achilles. I don't want to tear it again. So for the Arizona trail speed record, I hit right around mile 50, doing the right pace, doing 50 53 a day. And then I just felt something in my left Achilles, and I was committed to go up to Alaska and guy to guy. So I didn't want to be like, sorry, guys. I tore my acute. I can't walk, so I stuck safe with it. Totally. I suppose it's really important to know when to just take a break. Yeah, definitely. That too for me. I don't know. I always got to get filled in with a couple of my hiking friends that they like hitting podcasts and like, researching stuff for me. I just like waking up in the mornings, like doing the through hike and stuff. I don't do the history stuff too much, but I love hearing about it. I love getting filled in. So that's why I love listening to podcasts and eventually start doing it more. Man, I totally respect kind of just going into it on your own and just sort of doing your own thing and not spending too much time. Like, we have this problem in our society these days. People just, like, spend too much time researching everybody's over researching, and it's just got to get out and do it. Oh, yeah, definitely. Exactly. It's just getting out and doing it. And even on my speed record on the Appalachian Trail, I ran into one gallon and I was like, I knew the name and I was like, Holy shit, just do the fucking legend. So I'm like, hanging out there's a train station that goes in New York City at a garden center. So I was like, I hiked with him all the way there, and then he's going to take a break, I think, going to New York City. But I was like, yeah, I'm going to talk, chat, hang out. So on my speed record, I should have been sleeping all the time and then hiking. But there are so many times I was just like, chatting to people. I'm like, Dude, this is like a legendary guy, man. I got to talk to him. I got to see what's up. So I mean, I was staying up. I don't know if I bought him a drink or whatnot. I had some sodas with them. And whatnot some ice cream. But normally you're sleeping and you're walking. But for me, you have to take in those moments. Exactly. It's more than just like doing the speed record. That is why I appreciate your style of hiking so much. Is you're in it for the experience. Even more so than just like, going for the speed record? Yeah, for sure. Man. I love being flexible and just like, bones and off and people, like, run aided guys, CDC, like some legendary hikers, and I still keep in contact with guys. Even this last year is crazy. I've been totally off trail. I haven't been on the Pcdat or CDT, but guys are reaching out from, like, Helena, Montana, trail Angels from Derby, Montana, and it's just like, friends, too, like other hikers, like, hit me up, like seeing that they're still out there hiking school. I want to talk about Alaska, but before we do, do you have any, like, hitchhiking stories that you can tell us? Just like, one or two. Just something that I know you have a ton, but something that may stick out in your mind. Hitchhiking is awesome. And I love hitchhiking. I feel like you meet so many amazing people. Exactly. You definitely sometimes run into some unsavory people, but for the most part, most people that you meet are just super solid people. Spot on. Exactly. I love being out there and running to people kind of learning their life story. I feel like even through all my adventures, I feel like I should be like, writing down other people's adventures and how people like, I feel like, that'd be a pretty cool book. But that's why I also enjoy hitchhiking is just like meeting people. One thing I haven't tallied up is how many hitchhiking miles I've had because I have hitchhike a lot, like crazy miles just from, like, two trail and back to the other trail. One time I didn't want to pay a bus, a Greyhound bus. So I was like, okay, whatever. I'm going to hitchhike. I got plenty of time take a week. It should take, like, maybe one or two days if it takes a week. That's totally fine, too. So I hitchhiked from Mesa to Lordsburg, New Mexico, and it was through some reservations. And so I got picked up. It was really hard to get out. I've walked out of the airports and walked into airports way too many times in my life, too, because a lot of times there's no sidewalks going into airports. Everyone drives or takes a taxi. So I walked out of the airport, caught a ride. Finally, it was hard to get a ride out of town. Big city Reno. So I caught my first ride an hour east, got out of Reno, and I still talk to those guys all the time. And then eventually I caught a ride with through the reservation. And they were pretty crazy. They had been drinking all night, and I think they were probably doing some hardcore drugs, but I really need the ride. So it was like, the toss up. Do I take the ride? Do I play it safe? And I was like, I think they're pretty chill. And so I jumped in with them. But then they wanted to party with me. And I was like, no, I'm like, going to the trail to start my through hike on the condo by trail. So it turned a little, like, more of trying to get out of trying to not party with these crazy guys because they were all for the party. But eventually they turned out to be like, super chill. And then they dropped me off. And then we all had a meeting. They drove me, like, 2 hours out. And then I've got a lot closer to Lordsburg, New Mexico. But then I ran into more guys from, like, Minnesota. I grew up in Minnesota, picked me up in a Jeep, and, yeah, just tons of hitchhiking stories. I feel like, oh, yeah. But ones that stick out are usually like, the sketchier ones, like the ones totally the party and stuff. Yeah, I have one of those from Lake Isabella. Lake Isabella is kind of a sketchy area. Remember, Lake Isabella? It was a dried up Lake bed, practically when I went through there in 2015. But it's that situation where you really want the ride. So you just take it anyway. And then later, you're like, I'm kind of glad I'm alive now. These guys were really messed up. These guys were smoking a legit crack pipe while I was in the vehicle. Yeah, that's pretty crazy, bro. But for the most part, people are really great and nothing but really, overall, nothing but positive experiences. Yeah, exactly. You run into bad apples here and there. It takes a little technique to figure out how do you stay away from bad situations, too, before they become bad. But you kind of just have to learn on the run and gradually learn those techniques. Hey, everyone, I really hope you've been enjoying this episode. I know I had a lot of fun recording it reminiscing with Dan on the Pacific Crest Trail and also hearing about his speed record on the Appalachian Trail. I decided to break up this episode into two parts because this was over a two hour episode that we recorded. So if you have enjoyed this episode, you will not want to miss the second part. In two weeks, we will be talking about Dan's adventures in Alaska, as well as his hiking experience in Nepal. And also we will be talking about his experiences in India, where he actually purchased a motorcycle to ride to the Southern tip of India and back again. But not before India was hit with the Coronavirus in 2020, and he ended up getting stuck in India for over three weeks trying to get out. If you want to learn more about Dan, you can follow him on Instagram at Crazynots, or you can go to his website Crazynots. Com to learn more about him. I will be looking forward to sharing the second part of this episode with Dan. You next time.